Cassandra Cain (Wulfmyth) vs Buffy Summers (KingGojira)

Ladies and gents, I expected my post to be done by today, but volonteer work in the Red Cross and actual paid work(and some personal bizz) have been getting in the way. My post is about 67% complete, so I think by Saturday at latest we'll close this debate off.

This will be my final post. Its been fun.

Gear:

Alright, that's good, but it's wood. I've shown how batarangs cut through metal and steel, so Cassandra can easily intercept the stakes with her batarangs. Or she can just dodge them; given Cass is a casual bullet-timer, plus has that special ability of hers, I don't think the stakes will be tagging her.

Buffy is a casual bullet timer herself, and can easily intercept the thrown batrangs as well. I admit using stakes as a game changer is nothing special, just a range option and close combat option. As for never tagging her bit though, I disagree. Again, Vampires are all super speed. Insane fast in speed.

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Angle again easily catching a crossbow bolt thats only several feet away with his back turn. Same for Spike who casually catches a arrow inches from his face before noticing it.

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Angel and Spike showing that Vampire Speed as they move as complete blurs.

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Here we see Angel and Spike multiple times move faster than humans can see. Its not simply FTE either, its Anime style teleporting like speed.

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Angel shown to dodge bullets and see them in slow motion as well. Even dodging at point range both a Stake Gun (Fired by the slayer Faith) a shotgun blast at close range.

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Spike reaction time is so fast, that he was able to see Illyria still moving as a blur even though she nearly froze time to a stand still. Thats the perception of a Vampire.

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Buffy also fought even with the speedster Hell Goddess herself Glory. We seen glory move as blur speeds. We see here in the last two gifs Glory kills a stated 100 men, which was a shown army of knights, in the time it took Buffy to run inside the building, yell at Willow to drop the shield, and run back out. In show time 12 seconds. Glory killed hundreds with a prisoner in tow in 12 seconds time frame, and was gone from the battlefield. Massive speed.

This is just Scaling, by Buffy own stand alone speed feats, we see Buffy super speed at play many times as well.

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Buffy dealing with gunfire from super human soldiers, weaving through the bullets.

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More weaving through gunfire.

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Here another vampire with a degree of super speed, and a master gunmen of the west days fires off. Buffy dodges his gunfire fine, and he comments on her speed for it.

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Buffy and another Slayer being train by Buffy weave effortlessly through mass gunfire from American Soldiers. Weaving through multiple bullet trails at once.

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Buffy is straight after images against foes who time wise appear to stand still while in mid motion.

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Buffy blitzing several Vampires before they can react. Again these Vampires are all super human, and all have a degree of blur to human eyesight speed even at their lowest end. All Vampires also have martial art skill when reborn programmed into their heads. Yet Buffy still wrecks them with laughable ease speed wise and skill wise.

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If we want to argue real silly speed feats, this lightning bolt grabbed from the sky and redirected was reacted to by Buffy well after it was fired off at the Slayer name Faith. More a outlier, but the point is she is fast as shit and fights fast as shit foes. There is nothing speed wise unique about Cass, and Buffy insane marksmenship is a problem to be overcome. Its like fighting Deadshot with a degree of Wolverine speed. Its going to be hell to dodge regardless of her move reading ability on inferior foes in both stats and skill compared to Buffy.

As I've shown in the post above, Cassandra has caught throwing stars moving at FTE speeds and redirected them fast enough that several of Shiva's best students, who also had an environmental edge, couldn't dodge them in time. What makes this feat more impressive is that she went for days without food or sleep, so she was understandably exhausted:

Its ok feat, but the fact remains Cass has super human speed like Buffy, and catching objects from inferior in stats and marksmenship students means little here. I rather see a Bullseye level marksmen with a degree of legit super speed being countered.

-- Batgirl #71
As for Buffy catching what the Orphan throws at her, that might actually help Cassandra since she does carry around explosives as well:

I dont feel this is much a issue, Buffy hardly lives in a world with no explosives. Hell one character name Warren makes super weird sci fi tech that explode and modern weapons like grenades and C4 is a thing Buffy dealt with anyway. These clearly strange pellets/capsules is something I dont see Buffy catching or attempting too. That would really go against her skill and experience.

-- Batgirl #52
I'm guessing this will sting Buffy if she catches it. But Cassandra is also no stranger to improsived weaponry. She uses a robots head and throws it with enough accuracy that it deflects off a wall and decapitates two other robots:

-- Robin #88

Still no where as good as spitting pins into flies several feet away for fun, or tagging skilled/super fast Vamps/Demons consistently time and again.

So it's a plot device weapon, and an incredibly powerful one at that. Obviously Cassandra would want to stear clear of it, and given her speed and near-precognitive power I'm sure she will. I'll grant you, this scythe could be a game changer, but I don't believe it will be most of the time.Cassandra can dodge it, redirect/deflect it with her own gear, and her durability would allow her to take a strike if it lands(I'll get to why later in the post).

Im not sure how being slice to hell will be tank by a character with no healing factor. I will wait to see if you surprise me with one Cass has now I never knew about.

Now, some more of Blackbat's gear: there's her nifty little flamethrower that instantly set Gemini, a shapeshifting semi-robotic warrior, ablaze:

-- Batgirl #61
She has an acid pack which can blind opponents:

-- Batgirl #72
And she has a gun which can shoot out a net to trap people(she doesn't like using it often, but she has it):

-- Batgirl #73
In terms of sheer versatility, Cassandra has Buffy beat. And in terms of application of gear, she also has the Slayer beat because each and every one of her tools can be used in a variety of ways. Now onto:

Like I said gear vs stats. Some of these are neat, but thing Buffy dealt with. Hell, one character name Alexia had several super gear of various magical effects. Alexia also was amped to Vampire stats by a magic spell. Alexia was also the most train Watcher ever. Yet Buffy with no weapons dealt with her fine with no weapons. Another time Buffy face several elite demons who had tons of various magical powers and magical base attacks, and Buffy dealt with all the crazy fine to reach the Hole in the World regardless. Cass gear may be a advantage, but its nothing Buffy has not face before. buffy has face way stranger and way more devastating magic/sci fi tech in one battle than what Cass is packing.

The best part to the stats is Buffy's super healing. While slower than say Wolverine, it still heals burns, cuts, and torn muscles in minuets. It healed stabbed organs in minuets. Its why Buffy can be stabbed, bitten, slice to hell, and blast with magical energies of all kinds and be fine as the battle drags on. To beat Buffy outright you need to really tax that healing factor out, stab her heart, or decapitate her head. I dont see Cass pulling this off at all, not before Cass own wounds and fragile body succumbs first.

Stats:
Before we go into this section, I feel we should throw arbitrary battleforum terms like "superhuman" vs "peak human" out the window. The standards of what is superhuman can vary from universe to universe, in fiction. Even someone like Stephanie Brown can perform feats that we, in our normal world, might consider superhuman, but by DC standards she's Olympic class at best. With that out of the way...

Not at all. In Buffy universe, like all others, Humans can survive damage from impossible falls, or hit by impossible tons of force and live on, just like DC/marvel comics. Yet Buffy and vampires are legit "super humans'. They do things on a quantifiable scale that no human in DC or Marvel can do at all. Thus superhuman is a accurate term.

Strength

Buffy has kicked a solid stone statue to rubble.

A good feat but Cass has one that's just as good:

Not at all. Stone Staue to crack like that would require dozens of tons of force per square inch. Your feat is smashing what appears to be concrete or marble. Its not stone by color thats for sure. Buffy feat is a stated stone statue.

-- Batgirl #50
Bent rifle barrels with her hands with ease.
 Bends and twists open steel bars of a prison cell in seconds time frame.
I'd honestly say Batgirl breaking a metal blade is a more impressive feat.

Not as impressive at all to me. Cass needed to wind up the blow first off, and second off she is only shattering a quater to half inch blade. Possibly a especially a brittle one depending how that sword is made or its material. Nowhere the same as bending in two a inch thick hunting rifle barrel of high quality steel with pure strength alone. No wind up or focusing the strike required.

-- Batgirl #25
Buffy has shown time and again to punch holes through demons, even armored giant beetles.


Impressive. However, I'd wager Orphan breaking missile proof, three-inch quartz glass in a few hits is better:

Angel done the same. Busting through 6 inch Plexi Glass and he did this feat with no effort unlike Cass.

Yet Buffy always proven stronger than Spike or Angel.

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-- Batgirl 19
Batgirl has also summoned the force capable of crushing a standard human skull, casually, in order to one-shot a metahuman:

-- Batgirl #33

Which Batman himself stated was a weak point. Not sure how great a point that is when his head is stated a weak point.

Impressive, but this is honestly more of a lifting strength feat, wouldn't you say? And while I do agree Buffy will have the advantage in a straight up grapple, Cassandra's speed, foresight, tactical mind and overall preference to dance around opponents means chances of Buffy getting Cass in a headlock are next-to-none. But as for straight up striking strength, so far I've demonstrated that Cassandra is every bit as capable as Buffy in that department. 
If all else fails, Cassandra's pressure points and nerve pinches are pretty devastating themselves. She's taken out car-throwing, rock smashing superhumans with them, after all:

Striking wise yes, Cass can compete. She does no pressure points which help, and has decent strength on Vampire level to punch. To say that grappling is not a possible scenario is kinda a large claim. Buffy grapples alot, and grapples with both skilled beings, super strength beings, and beings with claws and teeth, and does the grappling of these characters well. In a fight grappling is hardly out of the question given Buffy's speed and insane skill. This is not some skilled less mook, or someone with inferior stats.

Pressure points is a useful counter, but again its harder to hit the limited Pressure Points on a body when grappled. In fact near impossible. Buffy also has a healing factor to help with that damage. Anyway, I feel grappling is a major factor, and something Buffy does often.

Durability
I'll concede Buffy is, overall, better in this category. But Cassandra isn't exactly made of glass either. Since she was a child, her father played "Two-For-Flinching" with her... with bullets:

 -- Batgirl #59 Even as an 8 year old child, Cassandra's damage soak allows her to tank a bullet to the shoulder and smile: 

Excelent pain tolerance for sure. But its tolerance. Not the ability to shrug or heal from the damage. Again, Buffy been in hell, and tortured as well, and still told said foes to piss off. With her healing, its more of a edge. 




-- Batgirl: Secret Files And Origins
But if you want a true testament on Cassandra's sheer endurance and pain tolerance, one of the best examples is her fight with Mad Dog. After days of no food or sleep, after fighting through hordes of zombies and some of Lady Shiva's best students, Cassandra fights her half-brother Mad Dog and gets stabbed through the chest:

And after that massive stab wound, Orphan stomps her brother:

-- Batgirl #72
She eventually faints, and "dies" from hypothermia, but note that even after days of fighting, without food or sleep, and facing off against some of the best martial artists in the world, in the freezing cold, Cassandra takes a stab wound to the center of her chest and still keeps fighting long enough to KO her brother Mad Dog(who was damn near a metahuman). Buffy will have a hard time putting someone this determined down.

Thats the point here. She eventually succumbs to the wounds. With the fractures, torn muscles, and bleeding Cass will sustain with every connected blow, thats another strike against her time card to last. Buffy durability can take higher end blows/energy, and heal minor to severe wounds of muscles and organs in minuets allowing Buffy to simply outlast.

Final Thoughts

When I accepted this match, I always felt this to be close as hell fight. A very fair fight.

I feel their Martial Arts knowledge they are close as hell. Speed wise close as hell. Striking force wise pretty close as hell. However this is where the similarities end.

• Cass has better tech.

• Cass has helpful move reading precog.

Then for Buffy

• Buffy has way more combat experience via memories of past lives, quality foes/threats she dealt with, and overall activity in her verse. Superior blind fighting too but thats not much a factor outside any stealth arguments for Cass.

• Buffy has better marksmanship for any range scenario.

• Buffy has better raw strength for grappling action and slamming action.

• Buffy has better durability to energy and physical attacks. Only slicing attacks being of serious threat, and even then her Vampire like healing factor will counter that to a degree. Healing can also help greatly with pressure points. Whats more devastating? Pressure Point on a muscle, or stabbed internal major organs? she should heal from any pressure point in seconds and be wiser to loo out for it.

• Buffy has the best weapon to by pass or counter any weapon Cass carries standard gear wise. Its pretty much the equivalence to Caps shield but in Scythe form. Armed with a blade and stake on the handle.

So in the end, Buffy will be pushed hard as hell, and very bloody or worn out at the end, but she can win this for sure, and has the better chance to pull it off. Looking forward to your closer. This was a fun match old friend.

Third post is up:

@Blackpantherisb

@HigherPower

Lets continue:

Alright, so I'm guessing we're done with skill and now it's up for the voters to decide who they view to be more skilled, overall, so lets get to gear and stats.

Gear:

Next up is the simple gear Buffy has. Buffy is a simple girl with basic Gear. nothing too special. For this fight she has several Stakes. Wooden Stakes are great for close combat and throwing weapons.

Alright, that's good, but it's wood. I've shown how batarangs cut through metal and steel, so Cassandra can easily intercept the stakes with her batarangs. Or she can just dodge them; given Cass is a casual bullet-timer, plus has that special ability of hers, I don't think the stakes will be tagging her.

Uses knives, nail files, sticks of the ground, and a ceiling fan to cut another Vamp in half. She can throw these weapons with the accuracy, range, and speed to tag FTE Vamps in the heart from dozens of feet away. 
Throws a ceiling fan so hard to cut a Vamp in half. I think range is a huge advantage for Buffy, more so as she should catch Cains own Batarangs fine and re use them to greater effect. 

As I've shown in the post above, Cassandra has caught throwing stars moving at FTE speeds and redirected them fast enough that several of Shiva's best students, who also had an environmental edge, couldn't dodge them in time. What makes this feat more impressive is that she went for days without food or sleep, so she was understandably exhausted:

-- Batgirl #71

As for Buffy catching what the Orphan throws at her, that might actually help Cassandra since she does carry around explosives as well:

-- Batgirl #52

I'm guessing this will sting Buffy if she catches it. But Cassandra is also no stranger to improsived weaponry. She uses a robots head and throws it with enough accuracy that it deflects off a wall and decapitates two other robots:

-- Robin #88

The Slayer Scythe is a powerful magical weapon, directly link to the Seed (Source of all Magic in the Universe) itself, which is the source of all magic in the Universe. This weapons is stated as second to Excalibur as a magical weapon, and to be unbreakable. So unbreakable It has broken only twice in showings. First time against a fight with Fray by Buffy herself. Both were using a Slayer Scythe, though being in the far flung future, the Scythe Fray was using itself is questionable as the original. Explains why it broke in fact. The original and true Scythe has only been shown to broke when struck against the Seed which in turn ended all Magic in the universe. Its so effective as a magical weapon, that even when broken and all magic in the universe gone, the broken Scythe was still able to generate magical energy to rip holes in reality. That is how powerful the weapon is. 
What does this mean in a fight? Might as well treat it like Admanatium or Uru metal. Its insane sharp, cut through other powerful weapons, and nigh unbreakable.

So it's a plot device weapon, and an incredibly powerful one at that. Obviously Cassandra would want to stear clear of it, and given her speed and near-precognitive power I'm sure she will. I'll grant you, this scythe could be a game changer, but I don't believe it will be most of the time.Cassandra can dodge it, redirect/deflect it with her own gear, and her durability would allow her to take a strike if it lands(I'll get to why later in the post).

Now, some more of Blackbat's gear: there's her nifty little flamethrower that instantly set Gemini, a shapeshifting semi-robotic warrior, ablaze:

-- Batgirl #61

She has an acid pack which can blind opponents:

-- Batgirl #72

And she has a gun which can shoot out a net to trap people(she doesn't like using it often, but she has it):

-- Batgirl #73

In terms of sheer versatility, Cassandra has Buffy beat. And in terms of application of gear, she also has the Slayer beat because each and every one of her tools can be used in a variety of ways. Now onto:

Stats:

Before we go into this section, I feel we should throw arbitrary battleforum terms like "superhuman" vs "peak human" out the window. The standards of what is superhuman can vary from universe to universe, in fiction. Even someone like Stephanie Brown can perform feats that we, in our normal world, might consider superhuman, but by DC standards she's Olympic class at best. With that out of the way...

Strength

Buffy has kicked a solid stone statue to rubble.

A good feat but Cass has one that's just as good:

-- Batgirl #50

Bent rifle barrels with her hands with ease.
 Bends and twists open steel bars of a prison cell in seconds time frame.

I'd honestly say Batgirl breaking a metal blade is a more impressive feat.

-- Batgirl #25

 Buffy has shown time and again to punch holes through demons, even armored giant beetles.

Impressive. However, I'd wager Orphan breaking missile proof, three-inch quartz glass in a few hits is better:

-- Batgirl 19

Batgirl has also summoned the force capable of crushing a standard human skull, casually, in order to one-shot a metahuman:

-- Batgirl #33

Just to really grasp her strength, this is Spike, that badass Vamp I mention earlier. Here Spike casually lifts a car and flips it. Pretty strong. Yet Spike is unable to lift this Troll God Hammer do to its weight. Buffy on the other hand one hands lifts the Hammer fine. Thats the strength level Cass has to deal with.There is no scenario here where Cass does not get overpowered in a grapple situation or able to go punch for punch.

Impressive, but this is honestly more of a lifting strength feat, wouldn't you say? And while I do agree Buffy will have the advantage in a straight up grapple, Cassandra's speed, foresight, tactical mind and overall preference to dance around opponents means chances of Buffy getting Cass in a headlock are next-to-none. But as for straight up striking strength, so far I've demonstrated that Cassandra is every bit as capable as Buffy in that department.

If all else fails, Cassandra's pressure points and nerve pinches are pretty devastating themselves. She's taken out car-throwing, rock smashing superhumans with them, after all:

-- Batgirl #45

Durability

I'll concede Buffy is, overall, better in this category. But Cassandra isn't exactly made of glass either. Since she was a child, her father played "Two-For-Flinching" with her... with bullets:

-- Batgirl #59

Even as an 8 year old child, Cassandra's damage soak allows her to tank a bullet to the shoulder and smile:

-- Batgirl: Secret Files And Origins

But if you want a true testament on Cassandra's sheer endurance and pain tolerance, one of the best examples is her fight with Mad Dog. After days of no food or sleep, after fighting through hordes of zombies and some of Lady Shiva's best students, Cassandra fights her half-brother Mad Dog and gets stabbed through the chest:

And after that massive stab wound, Orphan stomps her brother:

-- Batgirl #72

She eventually faints, and "dies" from hypothermia, but note that even after days of fighting, without food or sleep, and facing off against some of the best martial artists in the world, in the freezing cold, Cassandra takes a stab wound to the center of her chest and still keeps fighting long enough to KO her brother Mad Dog(who was damn near a metahuman). Buffy will have a hard time putting someone this determined down.

Thoughts so far:

We'll save speed for our last post, which I think is fair, but so far:

• Cassandra is more skilled

• Cassandra has a talent Buffy cannot counter

• Cassandra has more versatile gear

• Cassandra isn't as durable as Buffy, but has insane damage soak

• Cassandra's striking strength is just as good as Buffy's and she can use it better in combat, in tandem with her speed and skill

Overall, I'd still say Bagirl has what it takes to win this fight.

Alright I am back. Hurricane moving way to slowly and just does not know where to go. As promise I will leave the skill debate part behind. We both brought up our thoughts, and views, and thats for readers to decide.

Gear

Next up is the simple gear Buffy has. Buffy is a simple girl with basic Gear. nothing too special. For this fight she has several Stakes. Wooden Stakes are great for close combat and throwing weapons. for throwing weapons should be noted she can use anything as a weapon.

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Uses knives, nail files, sticks of the ground, and a ceiling fan to cut another Vamp in half. She can throw these weapons with the accuracy, range, and speed to tag FTE Vamps in the heart from dozens of feet away.

Throws a ceiling fan so hard to cut a Vamp in half. I think range is a huge advantage for Buffy, more so as she should catch Cains own Batarangs fine and re use them to greater effect.

Buffy also uses Crossbows and swords to great affect, though thats not applicable here. Its redundant with her stakes, but what Buffy has as her main weapon is really all she needs. Her Slayer Scythe.

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https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/14/147508/4959466-buffy%20gear%20slayer%20scythe%20%284%29.png

The Slayer Scythe is a powerful magical weapon, directly link to the Seed (Source of all Magic in the Universe) itself, which is the source of all magic in the Universe. This weapons is stated as second to Excalibur as a magical weapon, and to be unbreakable. So unbreakable It has broken only twice in showings. First time against a fight with Fray by Buffy herself. Both were using a Slayer Scythe, though being in the far flung future, the Scythe Fray was using itself is questionable as the original. Explains why it broke in fact. The original and true Scythe has only been shown to broke when struck against the Seed which in turn ended all Magic in the universe. Its so effective as a magical weapon, that even when broken and all magic in the universe gone, the broken Scythe was still able to generate magical energy to rip holes in reality. That is how powerful the weapon is.

What does this mean in a fight? Might as well treat it like Admanatium or Uru metal. Its insane sharp, cut through other powerful weapons, and nigh unbreakable.

Strength

Well like I said Gear would be quick. Buffy has decent range options thanks to her accuracy with anything being a weapon Bullseye style, and Buffy has her Scythe. So what does that leave? Stats baby! This is where Buffy takes the points hands down. She is very super human. In fact only thing Cass is comparable in is speed, but when it comes to strength, durability, and healing factor that is all Buffy.

Starting with Strength. Buffy strength is insane good. Most Vampires are in the ton range. Yet Buffy is far superior to all Vampires in strength. Some stand alone feats of hers.

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Buffy has kicked a solid stone statue to rubble.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/14/147508/4921180-buffy%20feat%20strength%20%2814%29.png

Bent rifle barrels with her hands with ease.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/14/147508/4921182-buffy%20feat%20strength%20%2816%29.gif

Bends and twists open steel bars of a prison cell in seconds time frame.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/14/147508/4921165-buffy%20feat%20strength%20%285%29.png

Buffy has shown time and again to punch holes through demons, even armored giant beetles.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11121/111215016/5829197-spike%20feat%20strength%20%2820%29.png

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/14/147508/4917884-buffy%20feat%20strength%20%281%29.gif

Just to really grasp her strength, this is Spike, that badass Vamp I mention earlier. Here Spike casually lifts a car and flips it. Pretty strong. Yet Spike is unable to lift this Troll God Hammer do to its weight. Buffy on the other hand one hands lifts the Hammer fine. Thats the strength level Cass has to deal with.There is no scenario here where Cass does not get overpowered in a grapple situation or able to go punch for punch.

Durability

Another area Buffy is better in is durability for sure. Buffy is able to tank blunt and energy damage with no issues, and even stab wounds matter little thanks to her healing factor.

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Buffy shrugging of a several toner blow that has her body break a thick ass tree in half.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/14/147508/4921192-buffy%20feat%20durability%20%287%29.png

Old One Malkor, who is the master demon of the Vampire Race, was slaming Buffy around so hard to be cratering cave walls and the rocky ground. Just ragdolling Buffy who not only was never KOed by the attacks, but then fights back for the advantage once released.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/14/147508/4921204-buffy%20feat%20durability%20%2815%29.gif

Buffy is so durable that her and Spike had rough sex to the point the house fell ontop of them from the force of them banging lol. That was pleasure for Buffy too. Still not convince?

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/14/147508/4917871-buffy%20feat%20durability%20%2810%29.gif

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/14/147508/4921197-buffy%20feat%20durability%20%2813%29.gif

This is Glory. Glory is a Hell God who rules her own world in another Universe. Glory so strong in her host body that she punches down inches thick steel doors. So strong that she splits the whole concrete floor and causes the roof to come down by simply stomping the ground.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/14/147508/4917872-buffy%20feat%20durability%20%2811%29.gif

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/14/147508/4917873-buffy%20feat%20durability%20%2812%29.gif

At the end of this fight Buffy, after Buffy was smacked, punched, and cratering the concrete walls of the building we see Buffy still shrugs off the blows, grabbed the priest, and jumped out a 3 story window, having the priest land on top of her to break his fall. She is relatively fine after all this. Sore but fine. For energy resistance we have feats like these.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/14/147508/4921199-buffy%20feat%20durability%20%2821%29.gif

Buffy has been hit and shrugged off 12,000 volts taser fine. I dont see any Taser Batgirl has dropping her.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/14/147508/4921200-buffy%20feat%20durability%20%2822%29.jpg

Buffy caught in a house busting explosive blast of magical energy, and thrown clear dozens of feet, yet she is fine. Making most Batarang explosive moot point.I should also mention how Buffy has a insane healing factor. Very good one comparable to Vamps.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/14/147508/4921207-buffy%20ability%20healing%20factor%20%281%29.png

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/14/147508/4921209-buffy%20ability%20healing%20factor%20%284%29.png

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/14/147508/4921210-buffy%20ability%20healing%20factor%20%285%29.jpg

Stated she heals as fast as Angel, and in her comic the time frame shows seconds to minuets healing fractured bones and rip tendons.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/14/147508/4911439-buffy%20feat%20speed%20%281%29.gif

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/14/147508/4911440-buffy%20feat%20speed%20%282%29.gif

In one feat alone we see Buffy stabbed in the internal organs, and left for dead, only for her to get back up, fight off the super Vamps, and then run after a speeding bus while jumping roof tops. Healed in minuets fully.

So yeah, unless its pressure points, Buffy is not dropping at all to Cass strength feats. Arguing pressure points is also easier said then done do to Buffy matching speeds, and skill. Even if a Pressure Point can be landed, depending on where it lands Buffy can heal from its effects rather quickly and stay in the fight. The difference between Buffy and Cass here is that Buffy can take a hit, and heal up to indefinitely fight, where every major blows or minor wound will add up for Cass till she drops.

I will save Speed arguments for last post, as that will be a hot one to show how Buffy speed wise more than matches Cass as well. I dont have too much time to type it up here.

This is coming along great so far

Lets continue

Combat Skill Part I: The Validity of Cassandra's Accolades

Accolades are fun and dandy, but truth is accoclades are all in admissable in a debate of logic and looking at things on paper. Batman is still a character who can out think and smart Batgirl regardless of her move reading. He has outsmart her. Batman may lose in a straight up punch and kick only fight, but in terms of tactics and out thinking Cain, he sure can, and thus more skilled.
Barbara is also discredit as a accolade. Batgirl techniques are not perfect, nor unsurpass, ever heard of Karate Kid? The guy who has super powers due to his perfect techniques and knowledge on Martial Arts? Cain does not approach this. So her statements mean little as Word of God. Accolades are not that useful anymore than Buffy's own as the top warrior of her Universe. So lets just move on to more quantifiable feats. 

Yes, Batman is smarter than Cassandra and can beat her with tricks and gadgets, but we're talking about ones fighting skills, i.e. purely martial arts. In that case, Batman is outclassed by Cassandra. This concept has been repeated time and again:

-- Batgirl #56

If you want more proof, look no further than their fight in Batgirl #50:

https://imgur.com/gallery/PB729Nz

In this fight: Batman and Batgirl both get gassed by Soul(a drug that increases someone's rage and so they wouldn't be holding back),but Batgirl was injured from a previous fight against a bunch of superhumans, and Batman abused his gear to blindside Cass. But the fight was still a stalemate. So, despite disadvantageous circumstances, Cassandra stalemated Batman(or you could argue she was winning since she landed more blows on him, than vice-versa). Take out the circumstances, and she would've won. So in terms of martial arts skill -- which is what I'm discussing here -- Cass wins. If you wanna talk about overall combative effectiveness, that's fine, but that includes stuff like stats and gear and the battlefield abuse, etc. I'm just discussing straight up skill in H2H.

As for Oracle, she didn't have Karate Kid in her files, therefore the accolade doesn't apply to him. But it does apply to other people in her files, which are people like Slade, Bruce, Shiva, Dick, Connor, David, etc. Which is actually what I said in my post:

 (Oracle's files contain data on Deathstroke, Batman, Lady Shiva, Black Canary, among many others) 

So, yeah, you can try and argue semantics, but the point that the accolades get across is that nobody on present day DC Earth(Karate Kid is from the future and didn't appear in the mainstream timeline until later) is on par with Cass. And that's confirmed by Word of God later on in the very same files, so my accolades stand.

Part II: Training

Actually this is a misleading scan. Not saying your liying, but I been in this argument before. States she been train in every weapon correct? 
 Then Batman states she was NEVER train in non lethal weapons like stick fighting. Hmmmm.... I feel this scan is discredited. Its proven a lie. She never mastered every known weapon to man at all, and Batman made it clear she learn on "assassin" weapons. Meanwhile Buffy is a expert in all weapons, and kinda shown in the show to use everything as a weapon. Buffy uses swords of all kinds, axes of all kinds, knives of all kinds, bows, crossbows, guns, missile launchers, polearms, spears, staffs, sticks, stakes, shovels, pickaxes, scythes, flails, maces, sledgehammers, ect ect ect.  

Well, yes, Cain only taught her to use lethal weapons, but later Batman teaches her non-lethal forms of combat as well(again, note that in the scan both you and I posted it says she quickly learned stick fighting). And we have also seen Cass use a variety of weapons from throwing stars, to arrows, to various types of swords, various types of guns even. Not that the versatility in weapon-handling is relevant since neither Cassandra nor Buffy have spiked balls in their standard gear lol.

Agreed. She has a basic understanding of Batmans 127 Martial Arts. Its hard to guess what martial arts Buffy knows, we know Angel, Spike, and Giles train here. Giles stated Akido and Jujitsu. Angel is only stated in knowing Judo though on screen he shown Tai Chi as well. Spike knows for a fact Tae Kwon Do and Brazillian Jujistu. We also know one of Buffy past lives was a martial artist monk from the Boxer Rebellion, though what particular art is unknown, but was confirm to be a actress who knew Kung Fu of some kind. The Stunt Woman who did Buffy fighting scenes was Sophia Crawford and in interview she used all her Martial Arts to mix match for the fight scenes and this included Jujitsu, Tae Kwon Do, Eskrima, and Kick Boxing. Jeff Pruit the stunt coordinator also utilize his Tang Soo Do for the fight scenes. 

Actually, Batgirl started out with "basic understanding" when Batman gave her the holo-disk, but she later kept on training and improving herself in all of those forms of combat, as we saw throughout the Batgirl vol 1 solo run, and it was stated as much near the end of the run. Additionally, it's also been stated she mastered nearly all forms of combat during her career:

-- Batgirl: Convergence #1

And this isn't even mentioning her additional training with Onyx, Black Canary, Catwoman; or the fact that she learned Thanagarian fighting styles and the Kugo-Ryu.

 So all in all there is a large pool of Martial Arts Buffy knows or shown in the show and comics. Not the basics of 127, but then this is the only "Known" ones. I like to add yet again Buffy is a long line of Slayers who come from Martial Arts training and all parts of the world train to fight other skilled superhuman beings, and their knowledge is within Buffy by default. buffy simply gets training to "hone" it from Giles and other characters.  

And that's all well and good, but Buffy isn't facing all the basic styles of fighting here. She'd also be up against a bunch of fighting styles that exist only in DC's universe. For example, the Falling Leaf(no, not the snowboarding move), a fighting technique that not even Batman mastered, and is only used by Cassandra Cain and her father:

-- Batgirl #49

And she learned this one really nice technique that allows her to stop a man's heart and restart it whenever she wants to:

-- Batgirl #6

Or various fighting styles that can paralyze someone temporarily just by adding pressure to the center of their body:

-- Batgirl #25

And a technique that allowed her to get through a telekinetic Kryptonian Force Field:

-- Superboy #85

Oh, and a bonus strength feat since she managed to at least somewhat hurt Superboy with the strike, which is awesome.

These are all techniques that are alien to Buffy, and thus she'd have no knowledge on them.

The is the only time I seen Cain do anything "blind fighting" wise required a foe to smell like Strawberries and was nothing more than a kick. Meanwhile Buffy has several times shown the ability to fight invisible foes (several at a time actually), and shown long range accuracy with throwing weapons while blind. She clearly does it better.
(Here both Buffy and her foes are invisible lol)
(Catching a sword strike while blinded from the most powerful Vampire, ****)
Anyway, neither character is fighting blind, but my point is Buffy has quantifiable training and skill here to show off her training. 

Alright, I'll concede this point only because it isn't really relevant since neither Buffy nor Cain are blinded in this fight.

 Yes, and Buffy has been train to hone her innate skill through Giles (Ripper) who was the greatest known Watcher of the order, Angel who was the most infamous and notorious Vampire in history, and spike who was the SECOND most infamous and notorious Vampire and specialize in killing Slayers. Not to mention the innate training of past Slayers from the thousands before her.  

Alright, but first of all you need to quantify how Buffy's masters stack up to people like Shiva, Deathstroke, David and Batman. Next, you'd need to show me if Buffy surpassed them, since we know Cassandra is a good deal more skilled than any of her mentors.

Part III: Cassandra's Special Talent Vs Buffy's

Alright my friend, I am glad you did bring this up, beucause guess what? In some ways Buffy has a DIFFERENT ability with eh SAME results. Yes you read that right. Remeber when I said Buffy has thousands of past Slayers in her head? Their expeirence and knowledge? That grants Buffy the same results as Cain gets from her abilities.
As stated, Buffy when first getting her power has no knowledge of Martial Arts, or Weapons, she is just a sheltered freshman high schooler. Yet as the Watcher proved to her, she knows things and able to do things, impossible skillful things, thanks to her knowledge floating in her head, just waiting to be train. Cain has Move Reading, but Buffy has "Expertise" as we define is a key component of skill. Buffy has the knowledge and experience of thousands of train badass super humans that Buffy draws on. A scan of Fray, the only Slayer who never gets this ability.
 
When Giles first trains Buffy he starts her with staff fighting, saying it will take hours for her as a Slayer to master it and beat him, yet her connection (she is unique as a Slayer) allows her to beat Giles first time touching a staff.
Thats the point here. This was Buffy first time training. In one year, while doing Highschool and managing a home life, Buffy masters every weapon and fighting style the Watchers could teach her. In one year, and Buffy was not dedicated to it. Thats the level of experience and skill at play. Honestly she can watch Batgirl martial arts and likely learn them in minuets herself. She done this before. Its part of her power set. 

Everything you said is all well and good, and I won't deny that it is impressive, but this doesn't counter anything the Blackbat can do. This actually feeds Cassandra's noticeable advantage. Why? Because Buffy draws on past experiences, histories and memories of others to use a fighting style, whereas Cass learns a new fighting style the moment she sees someone else using it.

Buffy doesn't have knowledge of the Falling Leaf technique, the Koga-Ryu, the various nerve-pinching techniques unique to DC's earth. Meanwhile, any combat style Buffy draws up with her Slayer talent will immediately be forseen, analyzed and learned by Cassandra.

Buffy's talent doesn't cancel out Cassandra's, it only boosts it.

Part IV: Feat comparisons

 I see this is going to derail the debate, and its turning into "my popular franchise of well known characters beat these popular franchise of well known characters" vs "my more obscure franchise of lesser known beat these obscure of lesser knowns." In other words I will have to put in twice, three times the work to show off my lesser known characters, and their accomplishments which will bog down this thread. 
The whole "A vs B and won" as proof of something is not proof at all. Its not quantifiable and left to the whims of the writers. I really do not want to go down this false logic rabbit hole mate. I rather show tangible proof and stand alone feats than the nonsense of me proving how skilled Spike, Angel, or the basic Vampire fighter is and then show off hundreds and thousands of scans of Buffy beating them regardless. Lets not do that, its proving nothing. I rather post my respect thread here, and ask any reader of this debate and yourself to look up the skill sections and fight sections of Spike, Angel, and Faith. 

Fair enough, I suppose. But I think it genuinely goes without saying that DC/Marvel has a sort of baseline that is higher than most, if not all other, franchises. They have more named characters, more detailed descriptions of fighting styles, more liberty to break any laws of reality, etc. So being best of the best amongst the likes of Batman, Deathstroke, Shiva, Cain, Bronze Tiger, Black Canary, to me at least, is better than being the best amongst Angel, Spike, Faith, etc.

While I would admit that debating cross-universe in topics like skill can get a bit tricky, I feel like it's still possible.

 However to counter your post right now, I can post how Buffy in one night killed over 30+ Vampires who were prepped for her in issue #39.  

A nice feat, though I'd wager Cassandra dropping 200 of the deadliest fighters on DC Earth(and Rebirth Cass, no less) within an hour is still a better feat.

 Buffy drops them easy. Anyway, I really, REALLY dont want to pursue this who has a bigger dick by defeating who line as it again pushes away the quantifiable feats on paper for feats of who manage to do what in plot, as well who beat what characters that readers may be more familiar with.  

The problem is: what do you define as a quantifiable feat? We can't just say "my character knows this many styles, and yours knows this many", we also need to look at how they apply their knowledge of these styles, and their respective talents. To do that, we really need to look at their fights against other characters we can quantify.

Your attempt to equalize the two here:

Cain has many known martial arts. So does Buffy. 
Cain is a expert in all weapons, well lethal ones, and so is Buffy who knows lethal and non lethal for a fact.
Cain has move reading and can "Task Master" copy techniques. Buffy on the other hand has the innate knowledge of thousands of martial artist from around the world and time periods since caveman days, and can tap knowledge to master said MAs others try to use on her in turn. 
Buffy has insane good blind fighting and accuracy. Cain has some decent blind fighting and accuracy. 
Both have fought and beaten meta humans and "gods" compared to men in their franchises. 
In short Buffy and Cain are on par with each other period.

Is being disingenuous. For example:

1. Batgirl also mastered non-lethal weapons

2. Batgirl theoretically knows more fighting styles, since she's from a universe that has a ton of made-up techniques specific only to it

3. Her talent is actually different than TaskMaster's(I'd argue Buffy's talent is closer)

4. Your gods and metas still aren't quite as quantifiable as mine

 Buffy only disadvantage is Cain can possibly predict her moves before hand to a degree, but then Buffy can draw on her tactics and knowledge, and expert accuracy to greater effect than Cain can for sure. I dont see a cut and dray winner in skill here.

So how does Buffy drawing on her talents counter Cassandra's ability? Like I've detailed above, if anything it only helps Cass, as she'll either be familiar with the fighting style or she'll learn a new one and adapt to it.

As for Accuracy, again I fail to see how that'll help unless Buffy has a hundred throwing stars. And I don't see how Buffy is better at accuracy either. As an example, an exhausted, malnourished Batgirl casually caught several shurikens(shurikens that were travelling too fast for several of Shiva's best students to react in time) and then proceeded to throw them with enough speed and accuracy that three assassins(who were also taught by Shive and were also hiding meters away in trees) all got tagged:

-- Batgirl #71

Honestly, this is as good a feat of accuracy as any you've posted.

Skill Conclusion:

There's one thing we haven't properly addressed: how Buffy and Cassandra apply their skill in combat. Yes, we can argue the technicalities all day, from special abilities, to who knows more fighting styles(tho I'd wager Cass is better in these fields as well) but the deciding factor really is just who can use these talents better in combat.

You can, and you have argued that Buffy and Cass both know a similar amount of martial arts and thus they are on par. Well, I could argue that people like Lady Shiva know as many(if not more) fighting styles than Cassandra, but she still beat her twice:

https://imgur.com/gallery/BWxyMKO

https://imgur.com/gallery/z8mtLrL

You can argue Deathstroke has hybrid styles that would leave most other master martial artists baffled(hell, Cassandra has admitted as much herself), but she still danced around him and forced him to use a desperation tactic to flee:

https://imgur.com/gallery/36PaqGm

You can argue Batman has a better understanding of the 127 major fighting styles they both mastered, yet I've already shown how a fight between the two ended despite disadvantageous circumstances for Cass.

Basically, even if I admit Buffy has as much knowledge as Cassandra(she doesn't), or that her talents and tactics can counter Cassandra's unique abilities(they don't), Orphan's on paper feats are still better, because she has bested people who you could argue have these same attributes.

So yeah, Cassandra is more skilled, has better/more quantifiable feats, and has a special talent that gives her an extra edge. This category goes to her.

Gear:

Since I still, admittedly, don't know too much about Buffy's stats, I'll leave that part of the debate for when you take over with your next post. But for now I'll mention some cool gear the Orphan has. First of all: the iconic batarangs, which can cut through steel and the skin of a metahuman:

-- Batgirl #3

-- Batgirl #32

She has gauntlets that can block swords and other piercing weapons:

-- Detective Comics #956

She has claws of her own:

-- Red Robin #25

And that's just the beginning. I'll get into some of the more... dangerous stuff later. For now, I don't see how Buffy can handle someone more skilled than her, who also has weapons that can dismember her.

Your move @King Gojira

Honestly, I thought we'd start discussing stats and gear by our second post. But alright. I'll have something up ASAP, but also how many posts do you think we should do?

Alright, lets get "stuck" on skill then. We will push everything else back till we have our say here.

I actually don't agree with this sentiment, nor do I think this is the narrative we should be taking in this fight. I believe skill is going to be a major deciding factor here. And, based on your post, Cain has a considerable advantage in this field. This is important because Cassandra's edge in skill has often allowed her to defeat people who are her physical superiors(something I'll go more in-depth about as the debate progresses). I'll break down the skill section like so:


Accolades
Training
Cassandra's special ability, and her major edge
Feats

Ah yes, this is going to be a hard thing indeed. Before I go on, lets talk about the Definition of Skill.

Skill: the ability to do something well; expertise.

Expertise: expert skill or knowledge in a particular field.

So key words is how well you do something, and knowledge in a field. Key words on what defines "skill". Lets continue then.

Accolades
You've mentioned in your post how Bucky's skill is within the tier of Batman, Captain America, Wolverine, etc.:
Skill wise Buffy is really top tier martial artist. We are talking easily same levels as Batman, Wolverine, Daredevil, Cap America, ect levels. 
The funny thing is, all of the characters you've mentioned besides Logan, are inferior to Cassandra Cain, skill-wise. You have Batman admitting he'd lose to her(Detective Comics #951). After defeating Shiva, Oracle's files mark her as being "Unsurpassed" among the martial artists of DC's Earth(Oracle's files contain data on Deathstroke, Batman, Lady Shiva, Black Canary, among many others):

-- Batgirl: Secret Files and Origins
This is further backed up in the comic with the following statement:

-- Batgirl: Secret Files and Origins
And Barbara further confirms this by calling her technique perfect:

-- Batgirl #10
Already, just by accolades alone, there's a pretty clear picture that the former Batgirl is an incredibly formidable fighter. 

But now let's move on to her upbringing and training.

Accolades are fun and dandy, but truth is accoclades are all in admissable in a debate of logic and looking at things on paper. Batman is still a character who can out think and smart Batgirl regardless of her move reading. He has outsmart her. Batman may lose in a straight up punch and kick only fight, but in terms of tactics and out thinking Cain, he sure can, and thus more skilled. Barbara is also discredit as a accolade. Batgirl techniques are not perfect, nor unsurpass, ever heard of Karate Kid? The guy who has super powers due to his perfect techniques and knowledge on Martial Arts? Cain does not approach this. So her statements mean little as Word of God. Accolades are not that useful anymore than Buffy's own as the top warrior of her Universe. So lets just move on to more quantifiable feats.

Training
You've gone in detail about Bucky's innate talent due to her being a Slayer, and while you posted some impressive stuff, it's not better than anything Cassandra could've pulled off by the age of 9. She was trained since birth, day and night, by her father David Cain to be the perfect weapon with all of Cain's knowledge:

-- Bagirl #1

-- Batgirl #6

This is pretty noteworthy since David Cain is among the world's deadliest assassins(comparable to the likes of Slade and capable of going toe-to-toe with Batman).
While Cain didn't teach her every style of fighting, he taught her how to wield all lethal weapons, both conventional and exotic:

Actually this is a misleading scan. Not saying your liying, but I been in this argument before. States she been train in every weapon correct?

Then Batman states she was NEVER train in non lethal weapons like stick fighting. Hmmmm.... I feel this scan is discredited. Its proven a lie. She never mastered every known weapon to man at all, and Batman made it clear she learn on "assassin" weapons. Meanwhile Buffy is a expert in all weapons, and kinda shown in the show to use everything as a weapon. Buffy uses swords of all kinds, axes of all kinds, knives of all kinds, bows, crossbows, guns, missile launchers, polearms, spears, staffs, sticks, stakes, shovels, pickaxes, scythes, flails, maces, sledgehammers, ect ect ect.

-- Batgirl: Secret Files and Origins
After losing her special ability for a brief period of time(don't worry, she regained it and I'll get into that later), Batgirl once again underwent training in all 127 major fighting styles by Batman:


-- Batgirl #7
It should be pretty obvious that Cassandra has at least basic knowledge on all 127 of these fighting styles as, even after regaining her ability, Cass still kept using Batman's holo-recording to train(it was not uncommon for her training to last days at a time). 

Agreed. She has a basic understanding of Batmans 127 Martial Arts. Its hard to guess what martial arts Buffy knows, we know Angel, Spike, and Giles train here. Giles stated Akido and Jujitsu. Angel is only stated in knowing Judo though on screen he shown Tai Chi as well. Spike knows for a fact Tae Kwon Do and Brazillian Jujistu. We also know one of Buffy past lives was a martial artist monk from the Boxer Rebellion, though what particular art is unknown, but was confirm to be a actress who knew Kung Fu of some kind. The Stunt Woman who did Buffy fighting scenes was Sophia Crawford and in interview she used all her Martial Arts to mix match for the fight scenes and this included Jujitsu, Tae Kwon Do, Eskrima, and Kick Boxing. Jeff Pruit the stunt coordinator also utilize his Tang Soo Do for the fight scenes.

So all in all there is a large pool of Martial Arts Buffy knows or shown in the show and comics. Not the basics of 127, but then this is the only "Known" ones. I like to add yet again Buffy is a long line of Slayers who come from Martial Arts training and all parts of the world train to fight other skilled superhuman beings, and their knowledge is within Buffy by default. buffy simply gets training to "hone" it from Giles and other characters.

Impressive, but pretty generic. Cassandra herself has stomped skilled assassins that could turn invisible like Camarouge, in Batman and the Outsiders. 

The is the only time I seen Cain do anything "blind fighting" wise required a foe to smell like Strawberries and was nothing more than a kick. Meanwhile Buffy has several times shown the ability to fight invisible foes (several at a time actually), and shown long range accuracy with throwing weapons while blind. She clearly does it better.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/14/147508/4894278-buffy%20ability%20blind%20fighting%20%282%29.png

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/14/147508/4915266-buffy%20ability%20blind%20fighting%20%287%29.gif

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/14/147508/4941639-buffy%20ability%20blind%20fighting%20%288%29.gif (Here both Buffy and her foes are invisible lol)

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/14/147508/4910073-buffy%20ability%20blind%20fighting%20%285%29.gif (Catching a sword strike while blinded from the most powerful Vampire, damn)

Anyway, neither character is fighting blind, but my point is Buffy has quantifiable training and skill here to show off her training.

What leads me to conclude that Cassandra has better training is her tutelage under David Cain, Batman and Lady Shiva, who are the three most versatile and knowledgeable fighters on DC Earth. This isn't even mentioning her training sessions with various members of the League of Assassins, Black Canary, Batwoman, etc.
But that isn't the really clincher for me. What is the real clincher is...

Yes, and Buffy has been train to hone her innate skill through Giles (Ripper) who was the greatest known Watcher of the order, Angel who was the most infamous and notorious Vampire in history, and spike who was the SECOND most infamous and notorious Vampire and specialize in killing Slayers. Not to mention the innate training of past Slayers from the thousands before her.

But yes, the real clincher is the next category. A category that may surprise you with Buffy and Cain being VERY similar here.

Cassandra's special ability

The Orphan has a special talent that she inherited from her mother, Lady Shiva. Due to her training with Cain, the talent was only boosted to the point that the language center in Cassandra's brain literally became capable of reading body movement and fighting as a form of language. This, in layman's terms, allows her to know what her opponent is going to do before he even does it:

Here's a bit more detailed explanation from Cassandra as to how the ability works, if you're interested.
Not even masters of hybrid fighting styles, like Batman or Deathstroke, are capable of fully countering this ability.

Yes its true they are not able to counter with fighting Martial Arts moves alone, but they can and have counter with tactics, and experience, something Buffy has in spades as I will get too.

However, not only does this talent allow Batgirl the power to read opponent's moves, it also allows her to learn their fighting styles perfectly by watching and analyzing them. Batman says it took her five minutes to learn stick fighting(one of the rare things Cain didn't teach her because its non-lethal):

-- Batgirl #1
Cassandra herself notes that every fight she has teaches her something new:

-- Batgirl #64
And if you want to see it in practice, Batgirl learns the Koga-Ryu in seconds by fighting the Shadow Thief:

-- Batgirl #21
So in addition to allowing Cass to predict an opponent's moves before they make them, Cassandra can also analyze and learn their own fighting style and use it against them. I really don't think Bucky has what it takes to overcome this talent, but we'll see as the debate progresses. Now onto some...

Alright my friend, I am glad you did bring this up, beucause guess what? In some ways Buffy has a DIFFERENT ability with eh SAME results. Yes you read that right. Remeber when I said Buffy has thousands of past Slayers in her head? Their expeirence and knowledge? That grants Buffy the same results as Cain gets from her abilities.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/14/147508/4894563-buffy%20ability%20innate%20skill%20of%20past%20slayers%20%286%29.png

As stated, Buffy when first getting her power has no knowledge of Martial Arts, or Weapons, she is just a sheltered freshman high schooler. Yet as the Watcher proved to her, she knows things and able to do things, impossible skillful things, thanks to her knowledge floating in her head, just waiting to be train. Cain has Move Reading, but Buffy has "Expertise" as we define is a key component of skill. Buffy has the knowledge and experience of thousands of train badass super humans that Buffy draws on. A scan of Fray, the only Slayer who never gets this ability.

When Giles first trains Buffy he starts her with staff fighting, saying it will take hours for her as a Slayer to master it and beat him, yet her connection (she is unique as a Slayer) allows her to beat Giles first time touching a staff.

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/14/147508/4894286-buffy%20ability%20innate%20skill%20of%20past%20slayers%20%2811%29.gif

https://i.makeagif.com/media/8-27-2019/gysDFS.mp4

Thats the point here. This was Buffy first time training. In one year, while doing Highschool and managing a home life, Buffy masters every weapon and fighting style the Watchers could teach her. In one year, and Buffy was not dedicated to it. Thats the level of experience and skill at play. Honestly she can watch Batgirl martial arts and likely learn them in minuets herself. She done this before. Its part of her power set.

Feats
I'm not gonna bore you and throw all my cards on the table just yet, so I'll list a feat I particularly like from Cassandra's Rebirth appearances. In Detective Comics #954-955, Cassandra massacres an army that contained 200 of the most deadly fighters in the world:
https://imgur.com/gallery/VBJjSUS 
I haven't seen Bucky pull off a feat on this scale, but if you have something comparable feel free to show it. Now onto the big point I wanted to make with this entire section.

I see this is going to derail the debate, and its turning into "my popular franchise of well known characters beat these popular franchise of well known characters" vs "my more obscure franchise of lesser known beat these obscure of lesser knowns." In other words I will have to put in twice, three times the work to show off my lesser known characters, and their accomplishments which will bog down this thread.

The whole "A vs B and won" as proof of something is not proof at all. Its not quantifiable and left to the whims of the writers. I really do not want to go down this false logic rabbit hole mate. I rather show tangible proof and stand alone feats than the nonsense of me proving how skilled Spike, Angel, or the basic Vampire fighter is and then show off hundreds and thousands of scans of Buffy beating them regardless. Lets not do that, its proving nothing. I rather post my respect thread here, and ask any reader of this debate and yourself to look up the skill sections and fight sections of Spike, Angel, and Faith.

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/buffy-the-vampire-slayer-universe-respect-thread-1748616/

However to counter your post right now, I can post how Buffy in one night killed over 30+ Vampires who were prepped for her in issue #39.

This is a great feat for three reasons. 1) Buffy was still a rookie slayer when this happen. 2) All Vampires are skilled to a degree with innate martial arts due to their possession. Stated as fact in the show.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/14/147508/4957571-buffy%20ability%20skill%20%2830%29.png

3) All Vampires have superhuman strength, speed, and durability. Buffy still mercs them though.

Another great feat is Buffy taking on 3 other Slayers who were pissed at her. Again, these Slayers all have the innate skill of the past generations, and by default Martial Arts masters of multiple MA forms. With the experience of thousands of battles. Buffy however is the most "Hone" of these Slayers, the top dog in a world of top dogs.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/14/147508/4921261-buffy%20vs%20slayers%20%2340%20%281%29.png

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/14/147508/4921262-buffy%20vs%20slayers%20%2340%20%282%29.png

Buffy drops them easy. Anyway, I really, REALLY dont want to pursue this who has a bigger dick by defeating who line as it again pushes away the quantifiable feats on paper for feats of who manage to do what in plot, as well who beat what characters that readers may be more familiar with.

Accuracy

One more things skill wise I like to touch on, and its also a factor. Accuracy. The ability to hit a range target is a skill form in itself, and guess what? Buffy has this in spades as well.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/14/147508/4915524-buffy%20feat%20accuracy%20throwing%20weapons%20%284%29.png

Buffy heavily trains in range fighting with bows and throwing weapons. As seen she is very capable of heart stabbing foes who possess a degree of super speed consistently.

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/14/147508/4915532-buffy%20feat%20accuracy%20throwing%20weapons%20%2815%29.jpg

Her accuracy is so good she can spit a pin out at a fly and pin said fly to the wall. Her accuracy is top notch and another advantage here as well proof of skill.

Skill Vs Stats
Now you've said that Bucky has superior stats, and due to my relatively limited knowledge, I can neither agree nor disagree. We'll discuss that as the debate goes on. However, even if I were to concede Bucky has better physicals, that won't be a problem for the Orphan. 
Cassandra has straight up stomped metahumans with superhuman stats before, purely by using her skill:

https://imgur.com/gallery/4dFlY9V 

This is pretty much in line with how her mother, Shiva, fights as well. Lady Shiva often uses her opponent's strength against them, as seen when she sent Supergirl(Matrix) packing:

-- Wonder Woman #175

So even assuming I agree with the idea that Bucky has better physicals, I've demonstrated Cassandra has superior skill and is no stranger to dropping metahumans. This, in addition to her capability to anticipate Bucky's movements, analyze her fighting style, and a gear advantage(I'll give details on Cass' gear in later posts), I think it's safe to say Cass has this in the bag.

Stats will play a huge role as Buffy has fought, and beaten Gods and Old Ones (beings who manipulate minds, reality, transmutate, souls, elements, even time) with her knowledge, skill, and plot just as much as Cassandra has. So in the end Buffy will have similar skill, but the better stats will edge it. Buffy has solid gear too, but we will get to that part as needed.

As of now, I feel the debate of skill needs to be hashed out, and i will let you have the closing argument on skill as you may not feel this way, but I feel skill wise they are so close to even, its not much of a edge either way.

Skill Conclusions:

Cain has many known martial arts. So does Buffy.

Cain is a expert in all weapons, well lethal ones, and so is Buffy who knows lethal and non lethal for a fact.

Cain has move reading and can "Task Master" copy techniques. Buffy on the other hand has the innate knowledge of thousands of martial artist from around the world and time periods since caveman days, and can tap knowledge to master said MAs others try to use on her in turn.

Buffy has insane good blind fighting and accuracy. Cain has some decent blind fighting and accuracy.

Both have fought and beaten meta humans and "gods" compared to men in their franchises.

In short Buffy and Cain are on par with each other period. Buffy only disadvantage is Cain can possibly predict her moves before hand to a degree, but then Buffy can draw on her tactics and knowledge, and expert accuracy to greater effect than Cain can for sure. I dont see a cut and dray winner in skill here.

Next post will be just going into stats and gear. You will rebuke my Skill thoughts, thats fine, but I have little else to say on it.

Cassandra Cain: The Batgirl, The BlackBat, The Orphan

Here's a quick bio:

Combat Skill:

So you started your post off by saying:

This debate is mostly going to be about Gear vs Stats, with a lot of debate possibly on skill. I say possibly as we may agree on skill, as skill wise I dont see either having a real edge. We can dabble in that later, but the core to consider is gear vs stats. Batgirl aha way more gear, but Buffy has way more superhuman stats and stated high level superhuman vs peak human Cassandra. 

I actually don't agree with this sentiment, nor do I think this is the narrative we should be taking in this fight. I believe skill is going to be a major deciding factor here. And, based on your post, Cain has a considerable advantage in this field. This is important because Cassandra's edge in skill has often allowed her to defeat people who are her physical superiors(something I'll go more in-depth about as the debate progresses). I'll break down the skill section like so:

1. Accolades

2. Training

3. Cassandra's special ability, and her major edge

4. Feats

Accolades

You've mentioned in your post how Buffy's skill is within the tier of Batman, Captain America, Wolverine, etc.:

Skill wise Buffy is really top tier martial artist. We are talking easily same levels as Batman, Wolverine, Daredevil, Cap America, ect levels. 

The funny thing is, all of the characters you've mentioned besides Logan, are inferior to Cassandra Cain, skill-wise. You have Batman admitting he'd lose to her(Detective Comics #951). After defeating Shiva, Oracle's files mark her as being "Unsurpassed" among the martial artists of DC's Earth(Oracle's files contain data on Deathstroke, Batman, Lady Shiva, Black Canary, among many others):

-- Batgirl: Secret Files and Origins

This is further backed up in the comic with the following statement:

-- Batgirl: Secret Files and Origins

And Barbara further confirms this by calling her technique perfect:

-- Batgirl #10

Already, just by accolades alone, there's a pretty clear picture that the former Batgirl is an incredibly formidable fighter.

But now let's move on to her upbringing and training.

Training

You've gone in detail about Buffy's innate talent due to her being a Slayer, and while you posted some impressive stuff, it's not better than anything Cassandra could've pulled off by the age of 9. She was trained since birth, day and night, by her father David Cain to be the perfect weapon with all of Cain's knowledge:

-- Bagirl #1

-- Batgirl #6

This is pretty noteworthy since David Cain is among the world's deadliest assassins(comparable to the likes of Slade and capable of going toe-to-toe with Batman).

While Cain didn't teach her every style of fighting, he taught her how to wield all lethal weapons, both conventional and exotic:

-- Batgirl: Secret Files and Origins

After losing her special ability for a brief period of time(don't worry, she regained it and I'll get into that later), Batgirl once again underwent training in all 127 major fighting styles by Batman:

-- Batgirl #7

It should be pretty obvious that Cassandra has at least basic knowledge on all 127 of these fighting styles as, even after regaining her ability, Cass still kept using Batman's holo-recording to train(it was not uncommon for her training to last days at a time).

We also know Giles train Buffy heavily in the art of blind fighting. Some examples here is her training with Giles, and fighting off 3 invisible demons trying to ambush her. 

Impressive, but pretty generic. Cassandra herself has stomped skilled assassins that could turn invisible like Camarouge, in Batman and the Outsiders. What leads me to conclude that Cassandra has better training is her tutelage under David Cain, Batman and Lady Shiva, who are the three most versatile and knowledgable fighters on DC Earth. This isn't even mentioning her training sessions with various members of the League of Assassins, Black Canary, Batwoman, etc.

But that isn't the really clincher for me. What is the real clincher is...

Cassandra's special ability

The Orphan has a special talent that she inherited from her mother, Lady Shiva. Due to her training with Cain, the talent was only boosted to the point that the language center in Cassandra's brain literally became capable of reading body movement and fighting as a form of language. This, in layman's terms, allows her to know what her opponent is going to do before he even does it:

-- Batgirl #1

-- Batgirl #4

-- Batgirl: Secret Files and Origins

Here's a bit more detailed explanation from Cassandra as to how the ability works, if you're interested.

Not even masters of hybrid fighting styles, like Batman or Deathstroke, are capable of fully countering this ability.

However, not only does this talent allow Batgirl the power to read opponent's moves, it also allows her to learn their fighting styles perfectly by watching and analyzing them. Batman says it took her five minutes to learn stick fighting(one of the rare things Cain didn't teach her because its non-lethal):

-- Batgirl #1

Cassandra herself notes that every fight she has teaches her something new:

-- Batgirl #64

And if you want to see it in practice, Batgirl learns the Koga-Ryu in seconds by fighting the Shadow Thief:

-- Batgirl #21

So in addition to allowing Cass to predict an opponent's moves before they make them, Cassandra can also analyze and learn their own fighting style and use it against them. I really don't think Buffy has what it takes to overcome this talent, but we'll see as the debate progresses. Now onto some...

Feats

I'm not gonna bore you and throw all my cards on the table just yet, so I'll list a feat I particularly like from Cassandra's Rebirth appearances. In Detective Comics #954-955, Cassandra massacres an army that contained 200 of the most deadly fighters in the world:

https://imgur.com/gallery/VBJjSUS

I haven't seen Buffy pull off a feat on this scale, but if you have something comparable feel free to show it. Now onto the big point I wanted to make with this entire section.

Skill Vs Stats

Now you've said that Buffy has superior stats, and due to my relatively limited knowledge, I can neither agree nor disagree. We'll discuss that as the debate goes on. However, even if I were to concede Buffy has better physicals, that won't be a problem for the Orphan.

Cassandra has straight up stomped metahumans with superhuman stats before, purely by using her skill:

https://imgur.com/gallery/4dFlY9V

This is pretty much in line with how her mother, Shiva, fights as well. Lady Shiva often uses her opponent's strength against them, as seen when she sent Supergirl(Matrix) packing:

-- Wonder Woman #175

So even assuming I agree with the idea that Buffy has better physicals, I've demonstrated Cassandra has superior skill and is no stranger to dropping metahumans. This, in addition to her capability to anticipate Buffy's movements, analyze her fighting style, and a gear advantage(I'll give details on Cass' gear in later posts), I think it's safe to say Cass has this in the bag.

Ball's in your court @King Gojira

Alright, to start off a little background on Buffy.

Buffy is a high school student who was next in line to become the Slayer. A Slayer is a human gifted with supernatural strength, speed, durability to fight even handed with Vampires, and other monsters. Slayers also get the innate skill and even memories of all past Slayers before them. Leading to a being with the innate experience and skill of hundreds of train fighters. After being train by the Watchers, and saving the world dozens of times from gods and demonic overlords, Buffy is still going strong.

Alright, so lets get to my thoughts here. This debate is mostly going to be about Gear vs Stats, with a lot of debate possibly on skill. I say possibly as we may agree on skill, as skill wise I dont see either having a real edge. We can dabble in that later, but the core to consider is gear vs stats. Batgirl aha way more gear, but Buffy has way more superhuman stats and stated high level superhuman vs peak human Cassandra.

So to focus on stats later I will cover Skill in detail and some stats later.

Skill:

Skill wise Buffy is really top tier martial artist. We are talking easily same levels as Batman, Wolverine, Daredevil, Cap America, ect levels. This is mostly in part to her Slayer innate skill of past Slayers. Though Buffy also has a benefit of being train to be a stated master of every weapon known to man by the Watchers, and receive more training in specific martial arts from the likes of Giles and Angel. Lets touch on these statements and feats.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/14/147508/4894274-buffy%20ability%20innate%20skill%20of%20past%20slayers%20%288%29.png

This scene was from Angel Season 5, where Spike ( a high tier and skilled Vampire) fought a little Girl turn into a Slayer. When fighting this young girl, she showed insane skilled moves that baffled Spike at first, and spoke to him in a language she never spoken before. That was because, as explain, all Slayers have the memories and skills of past ones.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/14/147508/4910164-buffy%20ability%20skill%20%283%29.png

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/14/147508/4921132-buffy%20ability%20skill%20%285%29.png

Again Buffy and Gigi (another Slayer) state how they share the memoirs of past Slayers.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/14/147508/4910163-buffy%20ability%20skill%20%282%29.png

Stated again by the Watcher that if Buffy is not a Slayer, than how did she know how to use a weapon or where to attack the vampire weak spot? She has the knowledge in her subconscious from the beginning.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/14/147508/4896413-buffy%20ability%20innate%20skill%20of%20past%20slayers%20%288%29.png

All this comes to a head in the canon season 8 comics, when Buffy faces Fray. Fray had no connection to past Slayers, no memory of them. Buffy overcomes Fray using her memories of every past Slayer's battle. This is stated directly, showing experience triumphs over brute force. Thats three examples of how past lives provide a string innate skill for Slayers, and Buffy more so.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/14/147508/4894275-buffy%20ability%20innate%20skill%20of%20past%20slayers%20%289%29.png

For 3 years Buffy train day and night with Giles in dozens of martial arts.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/14/147508/4915254-buffy%20ability%20skill%20%2816%29.png

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/14/147508/4915255-buffy%20ability%20skill%20%2817%29.png

Buffy train with Angel heavily as well, and we know he uses Judo. Giles specialise Buffy in a special hybrid style as well of Jujitsu and Akido combine.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/14/147508/4894295-buffy%20ability%20innate%20skill%20of%20past%20slayers%20%2810%29.png

In season 2 we also know from Kendra, another Slayer, that all Slayers are train to be a master of all weapons, though Buffy shows she has even more knowledge and training than Kendra did by using special modified versions of the weapons.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/14/147508/4894278-buffy%20ability%20blind%20fighting%20%282%29.png

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/14/147508/4910067-buffy%20ability%20blind%20fighting%20%284%29.gif

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/14/147508/4915268-buffy%20ability%20blind%20fighting%20%286%29.gif

We also know Giles train Buffy heavily in the art of blind fighting. Some examples here is her training with Giles, and fighting off 3 invisible demons trying to ambush her.

I really feel at the end of the day Buffy is more than comparable in skill. She has the experience and memories of hundreds of past Slayers. She has the training to master several Martial Arts, and expert in all weapons. She is so good she can fight perfectly blind. Nothing really sells me on Cain being better in skill, just on par.

I will delve into stats vs gear arguments next time.

TAEP

I'm readily excited to be tagged for any CaD on this site. Have fun gentlemen, if you need any help with formatting let me know.

Due to me getting a job soon and having relatively little knowledge on Bucky, mind if you go first @King Gojira ? And I'll try and respond ASAP.