CaD: Travis Touchdown (GilgameshThePimp) vs RJ (Maestromage)

@GilgameshThePimp

Rebuttals - RJ

I'm just going to go ahead and say that this is going to be a relatively short post due to Gil not doing a huge amount counters wise. I've already shown that RJ can compete in speed and that he has a noticeable skill advantage, both things you agreed on. So all that's really left to do is to prove that RJ can compete physically given that you think he can't which, given what I showed in my opener compared to what you showed in yours, is hardly unreasonable. So let's not waste any more time and get right into it.

For a feat that gives a better idea of what Jungle Fury characters can do physicals wise, take this feat from Jungle Master Mode Theo:

Theo nigh-casually spin kicks a boulder hard enough to send it flying many metres away and shatter upon impact with a cliff. A striking feat like this is already into the small building busting tier, and we still haven't reached EoS. In fact, at this point, I'd like to show a feat I showed in my opener, but for a different reason:

Here we have unmorphed RJ holding his own against Dai Shi. The reason I'm showing this feat is that Dai Shi at this point in the series is actually stronger than Theo was when he performed said feat, making RJ actually comparable unmorphed (I can go into more detail on the scaling if you like). That said, I should show what's probably the most solid (not outlier) feat in Jungle Fury, a feat performed by the elephant Spirit Ranger:

Here we see that a strike from the Elephant Spirit Ranger creates a depression in the ground over a huge distance. RJ himself has displayed the ability to hold his own against the spirit rangers on several occasions, but a better comparison would probably be to show how the spirit rangers did against the two last Phantom Beast generals, Snapper and Scorch.

In their fight, you can clearly see that Snapper and Scorch are portrayed as on another level than the spirit rangers, with their attacks literally bouncing off of Snapper at one point or Scorch throwing them around like Ragdolls. In fact, at the end of the fight, the two generals seemingly no-sell their big combo attack. Well, Scorch clearly does but looking at the episode when we next see Snapper he also appears unharmed, which is in line with their attacks bouncing off of him earlier and his general portrayal as a tank. The importance of this becomes clear when we see how RJ and the other rangers did against Snapper:

Now, it's true that their attacks were ineffective at first, but after getting hit by the combined energy attack of Dominic and more importantly RJ himself, Snapper begins to lighten up. At this point, we see that Camille is able to stagger him despite her attacks previously being no-sold. However, RJ's attack on Snapper is clearly far more significant. I'll show it here in case you don't want to watch the video for it.

RJ punches snapper hard enough to create a mach cone and sends him flying a huge distance into the air. Now, obviously Snapper had been slightly weakened, but I don't think it would be at all a stretch to say that RJ is at least comparable to the elephant ranger, if not straight up superior based on their respective fights against the Phantom Beast Generals.

The last thing I want to show would be this:

Here RJ tanks sword attacks from the Shark Spirit Ranger and bounces right back despite being weaker than him at the time. The reason I'm showing this is to show that even if RJ does get tagged (despite the skill gap) he can still tank hits from Travis' swords.

Well, I said it would be short and I wasn't wrong but I think my point has been made. The Elephant Ranger's feat is arguably comparable to Travis' and RJ is at least his physical equal by EoS. So he has the physicals and speed to at least compete, and also has a massive skill advantage. I'm sure Travis has some advantages due to his ecstasies but what you've shown so far isn't enough to net him a win.

@Maestromage Donezo.

"It's Kill or be killed"

Travis Touchdown: The No More Hero

Introductions

Travis Touchdown is the main protagonist of the No More Heroes franchise. He's a low-life Otaku who spent all his days watching crappy anime & pro wrestling, until he was thrown into the world of assassin's when a con-woman named Sylvia Christel gave Travis the task of becoming the No. 1 ranked assassin in the U.A.A (United Assassin Association) in order to...enjoy the finer things in life, let's say. Travis is hot-headed, vulgar, perverse, and a total jackass at the end of the day, but his fighting prowess is certainly something to impressed by.

But before we truly begin, we need to establish 3 things regarding Travis' potential:

First things first, between the time when Travis killed Helter Skelter (the first Assassin he defeated on his journey, and brother to the man he's talking to, Skelter Helter), which took place before the events of No More Heroes 1, and this scene which takes place at the beginning of the sequel, No More Heroes 2: Desperate Struggle, Travis got notably stronger. This naturally means that anything Travis performed in the first game wouldn't be his limit come his current level (since Travis never got any sort of amp during NMH1, it's reasonable to assume to stayed roughly the same power level at the end of the game).

Next thing to consider is Travis' weaponry:

Travis has wielded many beam katanas over the course of the series, but the main 3 that are most relevant come from Desperate Struggle, those being the Peony (a behemoth which trades speed for range & raw power), the Tsubaki Mark 3 (reverse of Peony), and finally the twin Rose Nasty (a balance of the other 2 katanas). Naturally all of these beam katanas come with the obvious benefits that their brand of blade provide, namely the need for both heat & piercing durability in order to take minimal damage, and Travis has the capability to swap out any of these weapons at any point, giving him good options for just about any close range bout.

However, these blades don't change his capabilities so drastically that any feat he performs with 1 can't be replicated with another blade, though they are still worth considering all the same.

Finally, their's the factor of the Ecstasies, which are power ups Travis can achieve mid-combat. Now normally within the games, these effects happen randomly whenever he kills a mook, however due to the rules of this debate, in this instance Travis will have access to all of them at any point.

Having said that, I'll save most of them for if/when they are needed, and for now focus on the main Ecstasy which will help him in this bout, Strawberry on The Shortcake. This gives Travis a temporary, but incredible speed boost, which greatly helps his combat speed. Pretty self-explanatory, but deadly nonetheless.

Physicals

Let's start off with strength, as it's easily the least complicated part to discuss, whilst also being one of Travis's defining factors

For the feat I'll use to demonstrate Travis' strength is actually the final feat he performed in Desperate Struggle, where Travis jumps on to Jasper Batt Jr's mascot form & slices him clean in half in a single go, creating a giant explosion. And Jasper isn't some normal sized balloon, as in this form he's ginormous, easily building sized when compared to the skyscraper. Needless to say that this'll mean that Travis has solidly building+ level in terms of striking power, so any good hit will surely be quite damaging.

And in terms of speed, it's also quite simple, if requiring bit deeper of an explanation:

During his meeting with the No. 9 Assassin of NMH1, Dr. Peace (also known as Pastel Brankino), Travis was capable of being able to block his bullet. Simple bullet timing at first glance, but the fact that the bullet sent Travis flying into a stadium wall & denting it means quite a bit. most explosive pistol bullets fire at roughly around Mach 4 at their best, but none that I could find have the sheer destructive power that Pastel's bullet had, so it's pretty reasonably that it was quit a bit faster (given the way bullets work meaning stronger = faster), giving Travis a solid low-hypersonic feat. And remember, this was NMH1 Travis, a good step weaker than his current self, let alone when Ecstasies are a factor.

Their are other feats for both all of Travis' physicals, not to mention the scaling Travis gets from other characters, but this should be enough to show how powerful I consider Travis to be.

Initial considerations

Now whilst I wont be doing any direct counters in this opener, I do want to go over my initial thoughts regarding what my opponent has brought to the table & my initial impressions as to how this battle will go down.

In terms of strength & durability, it definitely seems like Travis has the advantage based on what my opponent has shown so far isn't up to snuff to Travis' feat against Jasper from my perspective, even with the scaling considered.

Speed is quite an interesting case, as whilst it seems like RJ is faster than Travis naturally (at least in terms of pure combat speed), his ecstasy boosts give him the speed needed to outpace RJ for long to where he can land a solid blow onto him. Although thanks to Travis' feat against Dr. Peace, RJ shouldn't be fast enough to blitz a ectasyless Travis.

Finally, in regards to Skill, I'll admit Travis doesn't have that many skill feats, so I'll concede right away that RJ has him beat in raw skill, however Travis' versatility in both his swappable nature of weaponry, other ecstasies which I have yet to go over, as well as already taking on Jeanne (the No. 1 Ranked Assassin of NMH1, and a purely H2H fighter), means that Travis does have his own factors that help him balance out this weakness, but this is certianly something that'll be explored more as the debate goes on.

That'll do it for my opener, the initial cards have been played, and let's see who comes out on top.

@GilgameshThePimp My opener is up

Robert "RJ" James, Jungle Fury Wolf Ranger

Bio:

RJ is a member of and resident mentor/master for the jungle fury power rangers. He is also a master of Pai Zhua, The Order of the Claw, a secret martial arts based organisation dedicated to stopping the evil Dai Shi and his compatriots (the big bad of Jungle Fury)

Ranger Abilities:

Now RJ isn't the most versatile fighter in the world, but I thought I'd go over what he does have briefly.Obviously being a Power Ranger, RJ has the ability to morph, which for those of you who don't know simply allows him to magically don his colourful costume (which amps his stats). It's also important to note that morphing doesn't actually require time, as we see rangers morph nigh instantly when the situation calls for it, e.g

Unlike all the other Jungle Fury Rangers however, RJ doesn't use any melee weapons and fights H2H. He does however use energy enhanced strikes fairly frequently.The only other thing of note would be that RJ can fire powerful energy blasts from his wolf morpher (strong enough to seriously damage people who can tank his strikes) though he basically only uses it to finish off his enemies.

One more I want to mention before I get into showing feats is that characters in Jungle Fury progressively get significantly stronger throughout the course of the series, so bear that in mind when looking at feats. This isn't as much of a factor for RJ himself especially not early on (as he's already a master when the series starts) but it's incredibly important for the main trio Theo Lily and Casey as well as Dai Shi, who all grow tremendously over the course of the series and who I will be scaling RJ to at various points in this post. With that out of the way, let's get right into this.

The Wolf Master I - Physicals:

Unfortunately, RJ doesn't have a huge amount of great physical feats himself, but fortunately he's fought a wide variety of people that do. Seeing as I'm going first here and I doubt anyone reading this is familiar with the power of the verse, I figured I would start this section by just showing some general feats from early-ish on in the series.

Firstly, we see in Casey very first morphed fight that he's strong enough to punch Mantor so hard he's sent flying and destroys a small portion of a wall.

In the above feat we see Casey tank being ploughed through several thick walls by Buffalord and then tanks a headbutt from him.

Here Theo exchanged blows with Gacko as they fall to the ground, before finally throwing out a kick that destroys a significant portion of the ground below him.

And in the last feat I'll show here, Dai Shi bullrushes Jellica through a decently sized rock when trying to prove that he's strong enough to be her pupil.

Though I mentioned it briefly, I would like to reinforce again that these feats are all from characters early on, and anyone of them would be fodderized by any relevant character at EoS (which RJ is). As an example, in that same Buffalord fight that I showed above, Theo and Lily displayed the ability to beat down Buffalord 1v1, and the only reason Casey couldn't was due to his lack of skill (but even then Casey beat an even stronger Buffalord by the end of the episode due to extra training from RJ).

That said, I would imagine you'd like to see more conrcrete scaling-wise for RJ, so here ya go:

In the above instance, RJ is able to hold his own against Dai Shi H2H before even becoming a ranger. Dai Shi of course having performed the above feat as well has having beaten Casey in a 1v1 by this point (and before you ask, yes this is consistent. If you want me to go into more detail in my next post feel free to ask).

In my next post I'll show more feats for characters later on in the series go talk more about scaling, but this should be a good enough baseline for now.

The Wolf Master II - Speed:

RJ's speed also requires some scaling, but JF characters don't blatantly grow in speed the same way they do in other areas, so I figured I would just go ahead and show the two most solid speed feats, both of which come from Dai Shi:

His first speed feat comes from the episode 13 (actually they both do lol), in which Dai Shi beats down the rangers after recieving training from the Overlords and becoming a lot more powerful. In this particular feat, his flexes his abilities by catching Lily's Cheetah Jabs one handed. For context, Lily is the fastest of the rangers, and her Cheetah jabs are the pinnacle of her speed, and a good example of this would be when she basically statued Rantipede with them (someone stated to be able to strike 100 times before an opponent can respond, which is low supersonic):

Dai Shi blatantly outspeeding someone who can statue low supersonic speeds should put him into the hypersonic range.

Dai Shi's other notable speed feat would be from when he fought Casey later in the episode:

In this feat, we see Casey's strike rider is fast enough to ignite the air around it (which would require hypersonic speeds) and yet Dai Shi is able to react to it, jump over it and tag Casey with his own energy attack. Making Dai Shi solidly hypersonic in reaction and combat speed (as well as projectile speed).

So Dai Shi is hypersonic in combat, but to bring it back to RJ, pre ranger RJ was able to hold his own against the same Dai Shi:

Dai shi was unmorphed yes, but so was RJ. RJ was also getting beat up, but that can be chalked up to the physicals gap and the fact that RJ wasn't trying to fight him. The point is, RJ was clearly capable of hanging with him speed wise, meaning that morphed RJ should be hypersonic.

If you're not conviced then let me show you another feat:

Here RJ again holds his own against Dai Shi unmorphed, except that this was Dai Shi after a significant amps since his hypersonic feats (and RJ had gotten notably stronger by this point before you ask). Again, he clearly couldn't beat him, but the point remains that RJ is more than capable of hanging with a hypersonic character in speed.

The Wolf Master III - Skill:

This is the category where RJ has the most notable advantage, and what should allow him to emerge victorious in this fight. RJ is protrayed as extremely skilled for the entirety of Jungle Fury, and the easiest of showing this would be through the fact that RJ is consistently portrayed as being able to solo the early JF team with his skill. Let's get right into this.

As I'll mainly be scaling RJ's skill from Theo Lily amd Casey, it's important to establish how skilled these characters are at the beginning of the series:

These two feats from Theo and Casey should demonstrate the skill of the team even at the beginning of the series. They both clear through a large number of Rinshi (the fodder of the series) despite their range disadvantage. In addition, Rinshi aren't completely fodder, as Theo Lily and Casey solidly lost to them before becoming rangers, despite Theo and Lily already having years of martial arts experience at this point. Plus, we do very occasionally see the Rinshi training, so it's clear that they aren't entirely unskilled (the difference in how they did against Rinshi before and after morphing would be down to the stat amp but also the fact that when you morph for the first time, all the knowledge of being a rangers and fighting as a ranger is instantly downloaded into your body, which would imply some sort of skill buff).

It's also worth noting that at this point in the series, Casey is blatantly a lot less skilled than Theo and Lily due to his significant training deficit (he literally learned to used the nunchucks the same day that he did the above feat).

On top of being highly skilled, the Jungle Fury main trio have also demonstrated excellent teamwork in CQC on various occasions:

So to summarise, the early Jungle Fury team consists of 3 highly skilled individuals (Theo and Lily especially) with excellent teamwork. Now to show what RJ can do to them:

First feat, RJ takes on Lily and Casey 1v2 blindfolded by using a special technique, and he doesn't get tagged once.

Next example, RJ takes on one of Grizzaka's Shadow guards without getting tagged, despite one of these same guards taking on Theo Lily and Casey 1v3 and winning.

And for the last feat, RJ takes on Theo Lily and Casey 1v3 in training (after specifically telling them not to hold back) and despite his weapon and range disadvantage, again is solidly winning against them, landing several hits without getting hit once himself.

There are more examples I could show but I think I've made my point. RJ is clearly consistently at a level of being able to take on 3 high skilled combatants with excellent teamwork without getting tagged a single time

Initial Thoughts

Now I'm not massively familiar with Travis, but from what little I know RJ should have the physical stats to compete and his insane skill should net him the necessary advantage he needs to win.

Tag for votes